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(Music)

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Matthew Buffington (Host): What's up, everybody?

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You are watching the third episode of NASA
in Silicon Valley Live, a conversational show

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on Twitch TV with the various scientists,
researchers, engineers and overall cool people

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throughout NASA but especially here at NASA's
Ames Research Center in Silicon Valley.

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This is a special “Let's Play Space Video
Games” episode.

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Obviously on Twitch you're all familiar with
folks playing video games and talking about

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them, so we figured let's get some NASA experts
on this Twitch show to basically talk about

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the science and engineering that is related
to these video games in space.

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So, keep in mind, these are NASA experts,
but we are not professional gamers.

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This is not a speed run, this is not a walk
through, we don't care about K/D ratios or

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even being particularly good at playing any
of these games.

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This is basically an excuse that we're looking
forward to, so we can play these space video

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games and talk about NASA science and NASA
engineering.

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But as a special treat, we're also simultaneously
live on NASA TV.

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So, if anybody out there who is watching NASA
TV wasn't aware, if you want to ask our guests

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any questions you can hop on over to Twitch.TV/NASA
and join the chat.

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I'm your host, Matthew Buffington, and my
cohost, Abby Tabor, will be taking those questions

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from the chat throughout the episode.

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Abby Tabor: Exactly.

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Like Matt said, we're especially looking for
science and engineering questions because

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we have for you here today Chad Frost, Deputy
Director of Engineering here at Ames, and

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Mary Beth Wilhelm and in the back, if we can
get the SkyCam, aerospace engineer Thomas

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Lambot.

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Matt: Wave, Thomas, you can't just sit there.

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And Dave and Bill, got to give them a shout
out.

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Abby: Our guests are going to take turns playing
games and we're going to ask them questions

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about what they're seeing.

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Matt: One last heads up, if you can't catch
us live, you can find us on demand on Twitch

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and also on audio podcast services throughout
the solar system and beyond.

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But before we introduce the first game, we're
going to start off with a good old disclaimer.

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So, the disclaimer graphic, here we go.

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As a U.S. government agency, NASA will not
promote or endorse or appear to promote or

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endorse a commercial product, service or activity.

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Playing these games is not an endorsement
by NASA or the U.S. Federal Government.

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No game developer or publisher requested,
nor did we or will we request to play any

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specific game.

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The games selected were purely to facilitate
a conversation on space exploration, science,

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technology, and engineering.

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So, everybody got that?

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Abby: Got it.

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Matt: We're all good.

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With that said let's go a bit old school and
let's play Space Wars and Lunar Lander.

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Chad Frost: First off, it's ““Space War!”,
with an exclamation mark.

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So, we get really used to seeing all the modern
three-dimensional graphics on PlayStation

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or your computer and it's easy to forget where
this all started and, of course, before NASA

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flies anything in air or in space we simulate
the heck out of it so we know what it's going

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to do.

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Somebody has to write the simulation and for
things flying in space what's maybe the most

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important thing that you have to simulate
or take into consideration?

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Matt: Gravity.

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Chad: Gravity, right?

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So, this is the theme for today is gravity.

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OK, so I want to show you what “Space War!”
looks like.

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“Space War!” was literally the first video
game.

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Before “Space War!”

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We're talking 1960, and this was a game that
was written to run on the digital equipment

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corporation PDP1.

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This is the first computer to have a graphical
display.

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So, before this it was all, you know, typewriters,
electric typewriters is how you interacted

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with the computer.

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Matt: Do we want to show them the image real
quick?

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Before we jump into it and playing it.

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Chad: This is what it looked like.

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These two guys are playing “Space War!”,
and they have joystick boxes.

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Joystick boxes and control boxes, that didn't
exist before this either.

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So, this was hugely ground breaking.

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And you will notice that this display, it's
pretty big for the era.

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It's like a 19-inch diameter display.

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It's a big display for the day and really
high-resolution and it turns out these were

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radar scopes.

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They didn't have a big computer display because
no computers had displays.

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They used what they had and it was basically
a radar tube.

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That's how it all started is on the deck PDP1.

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Matt: We kept going back and forth.

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While we were practising and trying to figure
out who was going to play it, are you guys

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going to jump in?

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Chad: We're going to play.

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This is a simulation of two spaceships flying
around a star.

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So, there's gravity.

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The star is trying to drag the spaceships
into the middle and on our little spaceships

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we have thrusters so we can try to overcome
gravity.

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You will see it's kind of dragging us into
orbit and we can try and shoot each other.

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Mary Beth Wilhelm: You're going down, Chad.

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Chad: Not if I get you first!

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Matt: We've learned that Chad is pretty killer
on some of those old school games.

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Mary Beth: A fast learner.

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Chad: We have hyper space so if it looks like
we're about to die we can warp out of there.

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She got me again.

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Mary Beth: Pay back.

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Abby: How much do you have to fight the gravity?

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Chad: Quite a bit.

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If you sit there it will drag you into the
middle and eat your ship.

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You have to thrust to get around the gravity
well and then maneuver and try and shoot.

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Matt: Oh so you're literally doing a gravity
assist.

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Chad: Exactly.

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Like if we're doing a flyby mission, doing
a planetary space mission and doing a flyby

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where we try to use the gravity of a planet
to accelerate the spacecraft, it's the same

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thing.

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Matt: This is such an old school simulation
but even here at NASA Ames we have super computers

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that are doing this but to the thousandth
degree.

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Chad: Just like this but only a lot faster.

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Abby: Just like this.

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Chad: So, this, back in the day, a game like
this took all the resources of that computer.

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The code was loaded in on a punched paper
tape.

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The max memory on the PDP1 was like 4K of
metal core memory.

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Memory was hugely expensive.

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But it allowed them to simulate, you know,
what is basically a space mission in its most

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elemental form.

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Matt: You're getting some advice from SigC,
lead your shots.

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Chad: It's totally addictive.

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You do have to lead the shots.

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These are torpedoes, not lasers and the gravity
of the sun-got you, drags the shots into the

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middle.

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Abby: Really, even your bullets?

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Chad: You've got to lead it but you have to
think about where the gravity is taking them.

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Matt: Things that you're sending, gravity
is always at play.

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Not only when you're orbiting and get someplace
but when you're trying to land so that might

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be a good segue on over to good old Lunar
Lander.

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Chad: So we're going to switch it over.

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Abby: While you do that I have a couple of
comments to share.

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That's pretty cool.

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"I'm glad they're doing something different
like this."

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And also "Where can I play this?"

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Chad: Both of these actually happen to be
running off of my web browser.

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So, you can find them online.

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Matt: Using the Internet search tool of your
choice.

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Chad: If you Google for deck PDP1 “Space
War!” you should be able to find it.

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So, onto our next example here is Moon Lander,
or Lunar Lander.

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This is another pretty old game.

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People have seen this in its Atari console,
Atari2600 or before that it was an Atari arcade

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game but it actually goes back further than
that.

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This was, again, written on a digital equipment
computer, the PDP11.

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The PDP11 was the first hacker computer because
it was extensible and people could get on

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it and do crazy stuff like games.

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So, this was originally called Moon Lander
and it pretty much got picked up by Atari

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very much as it originally existed.

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Matt: In one of our first episodes that we
did of NASA Silicon Valley Live, we had Jim

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Green and Greg Schmidt, they were talking
about landing on the moon.

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Mary Beth, as we were talking before hand,
this is Lunar Lander, if you change the color

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it could be Mars Lander.

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Mary Beth is our residential Mars expert.

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Mary Beth: Or Martian.

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Matt: Nice.

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Let's jump into this.

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What goes into this and what's the engineering
that has to happen to land on the moon?

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Chad: This is our gravity theme.

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Landing on the moon, we don't have an atmosphere
to worry about unlike Mars or Earth but we

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still have gravity.

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The moon only has one sixth of the Earth's
gravity so it's not as strong but as you will

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see, trying to land on the surface you constantly
have to work against this tug of gravity and

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it means you constantly have to compensate
for it as you try and land your ship.

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You will see up in the top left corner.

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Matt: Are you going to give it a go, Mary
Beth?

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Mary Beth: I can try.

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Chad: In the top left corner there is a fuel
counter, so you start with a finite amount

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of fuel.

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There we go.

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And so, you've got a finite amount of fuel
that reduces as you use the thruster and you're

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changing the velocity of the spacecraft.

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The only thing you have to work with is the
attitude, the orientation of the ship and

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how much thrust you're putting out, which
is very realistic.

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This is just how the actual lunar landers
work.

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The only difference here is we're working
in two dimensions instead of three.

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You will notice in the upper right-hand corner
we have information about the horizontal and

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vertical speed and those both need to be zero
when you touch down or you're going to make

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a big hole in the ground.

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Abby: I like how we zoomed in there.

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What year was this game released?

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Chad: On the PDP11 this was around the late
'60s, '67 maybe.

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And it started coming out on the Atari probably
in the mid-1970s.

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Matt: This is amazing.

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She is absolutely killing it.

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This isn't the first time
you've tried it, is it?

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Mary Beth: This is the second.

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I heard this was a lot harder than it is.

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Chad: You've got fuel left so you can keep
going.

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Mary Beth: Topography is an interesting question
too.

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Because when it comes to landing on any planetary
surface you have moons and craters and mountains

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in the way.

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From Mars, there's a lot of conversation into
what is a safe place to land.

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When we landed on the moon, it's smooth, it's
the dark patches on the moon when you look

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at it in the night sky.

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If you search on the Internet pictures of
the North Pole of the moon or the south pole

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of the moon, or you look at the far side of
the moon, it looks very different.

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It's heavily cratered and -

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Chad: Kind of like this.

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Mary Beth: Exactly.

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It looks very foreign.

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Like if you didn't know what you were looking
at, at least for me, I don't think I would

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guess immediately it was the moon.

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Matt: I'm impressed you can talk about your
work and play this game at the

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same time.

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I could not do that.

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So how are you on questions?

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Abby: I have a couple of comments.

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Chad, your Lunar Lander is a hit.

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They want the link to download this fantastic
game.

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Chad: Matt, do we have any way to send out
links later?

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Matt: For people in the chat who are asking
questions, as much as the guests can hang

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out after the show is over around 3:00 Pacific
time, they can stay and answer questions.

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Abby: Then, Chad, how many Delta V do we need
to leave Earth and can you tell me what we

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mean by Delta V?

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Chad: Delta V is basically the speed that
you need to conduct a maneuver and whether

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we're maneuvering from here to the moon or
out into deep space or even doing little maneuvers

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around something else, you know, engineers
put that in the terms of Delta V. It's the

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change in velocity, usually expressed in meters
per second.

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So, leaving Earth, we usually talk about it
as escape velocity.

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Abby: I've heard of that, yeah.

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Thomas Lambot: Something to note about the
Delta V is that it's not the exact change

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of velocity.

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Like you start with that velocity, you end
up with that velocity.

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As you can see on Lunar Lander, you need to
thrust in some different directions and every

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time you do that you’re moving the velocity
in some other directions.

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So, the Delta V total you need are maneuvers
where you fire in directions to get somewhere.

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Delta V.

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Chad: So, for example, you don't just need
to leave the Earth, you have to get into typically

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Earth orbit and then you have to leave Earth
orbit and if we're going to the moon now you

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have to do a braking maneuver to get into
orbit around the moon.

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You may need to change that orbit.

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Each one of those maneuvers takes some additional
amount of Delta V which translates into how

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much propellant do you need, how efficient
is your rocket, all these details.

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Mary Beth: I have a question.

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During the Apollo era, do you know off hand
like how much margin they left for their fuel?

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Chad: Yeah, it depends on which mission, right?

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So, the first one, Neil Armstrong and Buzz
Aldrin are coming in and they didn't like

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what they saw when they were about to touch
down and they went long.

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They made the decision on the fly to not touch
down where they had originally planned and

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to eat into their fuel margin to try and find
a better spot, with no guarantee that they

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would.

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And they pretty much used it all up.

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They didn't have hardly any left by the time
they actually touched down.

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Mary Beth: Just enough to get back?

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Chad: It's actually a separate system but
you wouldn't want to run out before having

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touched down.

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Matt: If you're just joining us, you're watching
NASA in Silicon Valley Live, a new conversational

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show that we're trying out on Twitch.TV/NASA.

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This is “Let's Play Space Video Games”,
and we're going to switch things up.

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Mary Beth is going to switch place with Thomas,
she's going to go to the SkyCam.

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Thomas is coming up.

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Mary Beth is coming back towards the end.

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We're all going to get ready for, “Let's
Play Kerbal Space Program.”

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Abby: That's good news for Poppa and Zukus
who are asking if we can talk about the physics.

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Let's do that.

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Matt: I know Twitch has several highly skilled
Kerbal streamers.

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In full disclosure, I'm a complete noob to
Kerbal.

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I've been playing this for maybe a week now
and my friend EJ and Scott Manly are extremely

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good.

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I haven't been able the take him up on that
yet.

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This, what we're going to pull up here, is
the console version of Kerbal Space Program.

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If we'd had the PC version I'd have Thomas
do this because he's played around with it.

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But we're going to at least run a sub-orbital
flight and we're going to try to get in orbit

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if we can, depending on how much time we have.

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We can hop on over, guys.

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So, Thomas, tell us about Kerbal, what exactly
is this for folks who don't know?

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Thomas: This is kind of a simulation of what
the Earth will be and you have your little

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space assembly, the VAB over there and you
can create your own rockets.

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Matt: We're going to jump into the VAB.

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As we jump in over here I'm going to load
up one of my saves.

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Keep in mind, I just started on the career
mode so I don't really have anything unlocked.

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I'm going to open this craft.

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Thomas: It's OK, man.

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Chad: Which one of those little guys is you,
Matt?

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Matt: I'm in there somewhere.

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So, what are we looking at?

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Thomas: So, it looks like we have…

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Thomas: Can you zoom out slightly?

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So, we have a rocket liquid engine with some
multiple fuel tanks.

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There are different types of rockets.

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You can use some liquid engine, a fuel oxidizer,
you put that together, a high pressure in

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a chamber, you get a high-pressure gas that
you expel through the back to create some

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reaction force to push a rocket.

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You can also do that with solid fuel which
is kind of the two mixed.

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It's a big firecracker.

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You light it, it just goes, you cannot stop
it.

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There are pros and cons for using both.

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It looks like you've put at the top a capsule
with some ‘goo’ experiment on the side.

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Matt: I got a kick out of this.

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As you're playing it, you realize the point
of the game is you're flying different experiments,

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you're doing stuff.

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But I haven't unlocked a whole lot on the
game but over time, as you get more science,

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you can unlock more things and more objects
and more stuff.

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So yeah, I have the goo up here so we can
figure out how to run these experiments and

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the idea is, you know.

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Thomas: A pilot.

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Chad: If you fly this goo into space, this
is a question for Mary Beth, do we have to

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worry about it coming back?

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Are there planetary protection considerations
with this space goo?

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Mary Beth: No doubt.

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Matt: Thomas with your work, you deal with
a lot of experiments and science that goes

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up for sub-orbital, not necessarily for the
space station.

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Thomas: What we do is we get some of those
science technologies, people have new concepts

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of things such as a new sensor or a new goo
system, they want to try out, so we put that

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on the rocket and we launch that to 100 plus
kilometers.

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Not to the ISS just to space and they can
do their stuff.

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We eject the goo, we spin the goo, we do whatever
we want - not whatever we want, what we're

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supposed to do, and then we get the data,
bring it back.

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So, the people who get the data, they can
figure out how to make it better, how to move

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that technology forward.

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Matt: Unfortunately, in my situation, I haven't
unlocked the telecommunications yet so we're

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going to go up, run the experiment.

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We can keep that up on the screen.

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Thomas: That's how we do a lot of things too.

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Depends, sometimes we communicate some of
the results, sometimes we just go pick it

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up, literally, get the canister back with
the payload in it and say how did that go

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and get the recording.

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Abby: So these could be biology experiments
or what else?

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Thomas: Yeah, biology experiments.

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We do a lot of technology.

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So, for example, a new solar cell, you want
to see if they get irradiated.

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What happens to the materials or like the
computer, if you can get irradiated stuff

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like that, we send it high and see how it
behaves.

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Matt: So I'm going to go ahead.

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I bet we have questions, before we jump into
the launch.

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00:21:00,059 --> 00:21:02,820
Abby: Or launch while I talk.

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First of all, "I love space” and the commentary,
“Thanks for doing this, and how is the progress

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00:21:08,610 --> 00:21:10,669
on finding more Earth-like planets?"

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Chad: Progress continues, right?

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So, this is an ongoing project.

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00:21:19,999 --> 00:21:26,090
There's lots and lots of data that came down
from the Kepler and K2 and it's still being

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crunched.

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00:21:27,090 --> 00:21:33,059
I think you guys saw some recent results where
some AI and deep learning algorithms were

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00:21:33,059 --> 00:21:38,649
being used to go back over the data that's
been collected and find additional exoplanets

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and Earth-like planets.

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NASA has lots of projects in the works to
continue looking for those kinds of planets.

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It's really exciting.

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00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:54,840
Thomas: All the data they get, they get so
much data, they push it to the crowd and give

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00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:57,149
it to other scientists around the world.

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00:21:57,149 --> 00:22:04,629
They crunch data and use the algorithm to
find other planets.

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00:22:04,629 --> 00:22:07,890
There is a way for people to participate in
NASA ventures.

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Abby: Ordinary people go through that data
and find planets, right?

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Matt: Let's jump into this launch.

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00:22:13,549 --> 00:22:17,200
Thomas, I'm going to have you talk us through
and Mary Beth, if you have anything on the

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00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:22,019
science goo side that we need to know as the
NASA scientist, we expect you to do this.

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00:22:22,019 --> 00:22:25,659
Abby: I'll have a physics question but I'll
let you launch.

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Thomas: Don't check the range or anything,
just launch like that.

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00:22:29,509 --> 00:22:30,509
Come
on.

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00:22:30,509 --> 00:22:34,440
Matt: I did not check the range.

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00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:37,090
I did not go through my checklist either.

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00:22:37,090 --> 00:22:39,169
Thomas: That's a heavy turn right there.

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00:22:39,169 --> 00:22:42,499
Good thing you have some fins on it.

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Abby: What are the fins doing for him?

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Thomas: As you build up speed, those fins
will act to counteract the drag.

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00:22:49,309 --> 00:22:53,809
So, you see this rocket right now is like
tilted and you have some balance with the

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00:22:53,809 --> 00:23:00,929
center of pressure, center of thrust and without
getting details it's easy to tip over and

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00:23:00,929 --> 00:23:01,929
crash and burn.

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00:23:01,929 --> 00:23:06,460
That's why rocket science, or rocket engineering,
is really what it is.

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Pretty complex.

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00:23:07,460 --> 00:23:09,989
One mistake and everything can literally go
in flames.

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Abby: So this question from Block Watcher
is good.

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"Do you have to consider relativity when going
to the moon or Mars or is Newtonian mechanics

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00:23:17,730 --> 00:23:18,730
enough?"

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00:23:18,730 --> 00:23:22,309
Chad: It's a good question.

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00:23:22,309 --> 00:23:26,649
Moon and Mars for the most part Newtonian
suffices.

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00:23:26,649 --> 00:23:33,029
If you're going off into the deeper space,
further out missions, it starts to come into

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effect but for moon and Mars, for the most
part, we don't have to take it into account.

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It depends on the mission, though, right?

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00:23:41,129 --> 00:23:43,899
There's some missions where you're actually
trying to…

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00:23:43,899 --> 00:23:50,679
Your science is all about looking at gravity
effects, trying to prove out some of the fundamental

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laws of physics and in those cases you do.

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The mission's sensitive to those parameters
but if you're just trying to get there, not

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so much.

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Abby: OK.

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00:24:00,990 --> 00:24:01,990
Interesting.

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Thomas: So looks like we ran out of fuel.

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The goo seems to be getting cold now.

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That's good data.

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It's valuable.

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Matt: Trying to get people a good view of
the goo.

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00:24:19,659 --> 00:24:24,539
Thomas: So usually when you have rockets like
that, when you run out of fuel, you just,

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you know, you jettison the rest of the rocket
that you don't need, the part of the rocket

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you don't need because especially when you
have multiple stage like on rocket on top

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of a rocket, when you're like halfway through,
when you use the bottom part of the rocket

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00:24:37,159 --> 00:24:40,950
you can - it's like dead mass and you need
to carry that dead mass.

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The best we do when we go to space, you stage,
meaning you remove some part of it.

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00:24:48,039 --> 00:24:53,600
Matt: I should have jettisoned my stuff a
while back after I ran out of fuel?

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00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:54,600
Yeah.

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00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:56,950
I'm going to go ahead and pop off after that.

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Thomas: It's a crewed flight, we have a pilot
in there.

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00:25:02,539 --> 00:25:07,519
Matt: On the bottom right, if we start spinning
around too much he's going to have a bad time.

381
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Thomas: He looks very happy when you spin
it, actually.

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Matt: His face.

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00:25:11,289 --> 00:25:13,289
Chad: He's enjoying that.

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Abby: I have a couple of related questions.

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00:25:17,179 --> 00:25:21,200
How many years before we see engines that
will enable deep space travel?

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00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:23,749
And then "It's only rocket science.

387
00:25:23,749 --> 00:25:25,669
When is the debut of SLS"?

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00:25:25,669 --> 00:25:27,830
As in what year, the space launch system?

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Chad: Those are good questions.

390
00:25:29,190 --> 00:25:34,019
The first question is when will we have rockets
that will let us explore deep space.

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We're already doing that.

392
00:25:35,580 --> 00:25:37,409
We're just not doing it with crew.

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So, we're sending missions into deep space.

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We've got the early probes have left the solar
system, right?

395
00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:50,429
So, I would say this is really a two-parter.

396
00:25:50,429 --> 00:25:55,769
One is when are we going to have engines that
will let us take crews into deep space and,

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00:25:55,769 --> 00:26:00,119
again, I would say well you could do it today,
it's just a very long mission.

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00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:05,399
So, if you're prepared to send crews out there
for years at a time, right, you could do that.

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00:26:05,399 --> 00:26:09,309
Abby: With the engines we have, the whole
package of everything else we need.

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00:26:09,309 --> 00:26:14,690
Chad: So electric propulsion gives you higher
efficiency, we're doing that with smaller

401
00:26:14,690 --> 00:26:17,360
spacecraft today.

402
00:26:17,360 --> 00:26:20,169
There's no reason you can't scale that up.

403
00:26:20,169 --> 00:26:25,309
But even with those engines, you're talking,
you know, missions that last many, many years

404
00:26:25,309 --> 00:26:28,730
to get crew out into the outer part of the
solar system.

405
00:26:28,730 --> 00:26:31,220
Matt: There's a parachute.

406
00:26:31,220 --> 00:26:33,899
He's going to make it.

407
00:26:33,899 --> 00:26:38,659
Thomas: Something to note is going to lower
Earth orbit requires so much fuel.

408
00:26:38,659 --> 00:26:42,249
Like a rocket is like more than 85% fuel.

409
00:26:42,249 --> 00:26:46,703
Just to get to lower orbit you use most of
that and once you're in space you have a lot

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00:26:46,703 --> 00:26:49,279
of maneuvers to do and things like that.

411
00:26:49,279 --> 00:26:53,700
So, the rest of that mass that is left over,
you need to pack in there all the stuff you

412
00:26:53,700 --> 00:26:57,200
want, including a very good propulsion system
to do things.

413
00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:03,330
So, NASA looks into some of those new types
of engine, also even things like a nuclear

414
00:27:03,330 --> 00:27:10,029
thermal rocket that might be something that
could bring us closer time travel to Mars

415
00:27:10,029 --> 00:27:11,279
and other places.

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00:27:11,279 --> 00:27:12,809
Abby: OK, so we're on it?

417
00:27:12,809 --> 00:27:13,809
Thomas: We are.

418
00:27:13,809 --> 00:27:15,659
It's a tough problem but it's moving.

419
00:27:15,659 --> 00:27:16,679
Abby: What is SLS?

420
00:27:16,679 --> 00:27:19,619
Chad: It's the space launch system.

421
00:27:19,619 --> 00:27:26,529
It's the next big giant rocket that NASA's
building to take crew out to the vicinity

422
00:27:26,529 --> 00:27:34,100
of the moon and beyond and I think the next
SLS launch is the EM1 mission or Earth Moon

423
00:27:34,100 --> 00:27:35,100
1 mission.

424
00:27:35,100 --> 00:27:39,499
It won't have a crew onboard but it will test
all the systems to go out around the moon

425
00:27:39,499 --> 00:27:40,499
and back.

426
00:27:40,499 --> 00:27:45,980
I think it's currently late 2019, don't quote
me on that, but I think that's the current

427
00:27:45,980 --> 00:27:46,980
launch date.

428
00:27:46,980 --> 00:27:48,179
Abby: Not too far-off.

429
00:27:48,179 --> 00:27:51,590
Chad: The next flight after that will be the
first one that will have crew on it.

430
00:27:51,590 --> 00:27:57,609
You're looking at probably 2020, '22 or that
time frame.

431
00:27:57,609 --> 00:27:59,600
Thomas: It's a pretty big rocket.

432
00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:04,190
The last rocket we had like that was Saturn
5, which we had to launch all the Apollo missions

433
00:28:04,190 --> 00:28:06,619
to go to the moon.

434
00:28:06,619 --> 00:28:09,200
It's 10% more thrust in it.

435
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:12,750
If you have a chance to see the SLS launch,
go see it.

436
00:28:12,750 --> 00:28:15,289
It will be quite something.

437
00:28:15,289 --> 00:28:17,279
Abby: Cool.

438
00:28:17,279 --> 00:28:22,220
Matt: How are we doing on the chat Abby?

439
00:28:22,220 --> 00:28:23,309
Chad: Splash down there.

440
00:28:23,309 --> 00:28:27,789
Matt: I'm almost at splash down.

441
00:28:27,789 --> 00:28:30,580
The parachute is good, I should be fine.

442
00:28:30,580 --> 00:28:33,320
Thomas: Did you bring the goo back?

443
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:35,390
Matt: The goo is on board.

444
00:28:35,390 --> 00:28:39,429
I haven't unlocked the communications yet
to send the data back so I have to bring it

445
00:28:39,429 --> 00:28:40,429
back.

446
00:28:40,429 --> 00:28:41,429
Chad: Clearly you need to play this more.

447
00:28:41,429 --> 00:28:45,270
Matt: Yes, I definitely need to unlock better
things.

448
00:28:45,270 --> 00:28:48,119
Abby: Over here I have a bunch of questions
about Mars but I'm waiting

449
00:28:48,119 --> 00:28:52,039
for Mary Beth to come back so let's take more
of the rocket launch questions.

450
00:28:52,039 --> 00:28:54,159
Chad: We have a big focus on Mars coming up
here.

451
00:28:54,159 --> 00:28:56,309
Abby: We do.

452
00:28:56,309 --> 00:29:04,769
And then another kind of question, "I have
a big question about college.

453
00:29:04,769 --> 00:29:08,259
Is it worth it to go to the naval academy
because they have the largest number of NASA

454
00:29:08,259 --> 00:29:11,440
astronauts rather than going with something
more preferable?"

455
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:18,139
Chad: Heck, yeah, if you want to be an astronaut
that's a great path.

456
00:29:18,139 --> 00:29:21,399
Even if you don't want to be an astronaut
that's a great path.

457
00:29:21,399 --> 00:29:27,330
The military academies are a fantastic education
for engineering in particular, lots of other

458
00:29:27,330 --> 00:29:29,360
things too.

459
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:36,659
I mean if you're focused on a career to be
an astronaut or anything in the related field,

460
00:29:36,659 --> 00:29:40,429
you can't really go far wrong with the naval
academy, first-class education.

461
00:29:40,429 --> 00:29:42,479
Abby: I guess there are other ways in.

462
00:29:42,479 --> 00:29:43,869
Chad: There certainly are.

463
00:29:43,869 --> 00:29:48,240
If you look at our current class of astronauts,
they come from a really diverse set of backgrounds.

464
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:49,570
Abby: Which is nice.

465
00:29:49,570 --> 00:29:56,120
Matt: So we collected some more science so
hopefully I'll be able to unlock more rockets

466
00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:59,789
and cool things to build bigger and better
rockets.

467
00:29:59,789 --> 00:30:05,720
But I think the next step, what we're going
to do, we have some time but I have a quick

468
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:10,220
reminder to anybody, if you're just joining
us now you're watching NASA in Silicon Valley

469
00:30:10,220 --> 00:30:11,220
Live.

470
00:30:11,220 --> 00:30:16,559
A new conversational show we're trying out
here on Twitch.TV/NASA.

471
00:30:16,559 --> 00:30:20,729
We're playing Kerbal Space Program.

472
00:30:20,729 --> 00:30:28,929
I find the irony of all of our heavily accomplished
NASA experts of engineering and scientists,

473
00:30:28,929 --> 00:30:30,970
even Abby, you have a degree in neuroscience?

474
00:30:30,970 --> 00:30:31,970
Abby: Yep.

475
00:30:31,970 --> 00:30:36,850
Matt: The person with the communications and
public relations degree is the one who is

476
00:30:36,850 --> 00:30:38,230
launching these rockets over here.

477
00:30:38,230 --> 00:30:40,610
Chad: You're making it look so easy, Matt.

478
00:30:40,610 --> 00:30:45,350
Matt: I’ll play a lot and let you guys talk
about the cool stuff.

479
00:30:45,350 --> 00:30:48,509
Chad: I think you need to get us into orbit
here.

480
00:30:48,509 --> 00:30:51,429
Matt: I think we're going to do it.

481
00:30:51,429 --> 00:30:56,749
So, folks, before we were even trying this
out, I tried several times and it didn't quite

482
00:30:56,749 --> 00:30:58,460
work so why not?

483
00:30:58,460 --> 00:31:03,720
We're just going to give it a try and just
to let you know how much of a noob I am to

484
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:06,019
this, this is even on the training module
one.

485
00:31:06,019 --> 00:31:09,960
So, I'm going to jump into a training module
and try to get into orbit.

486
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:12,649
That will be a fun one.

487
00:31:12,649 --> 00:31:13,870
Abby: Let's do it.

488
00:31:13,870 --> 00:31:17,749
Matt: We'll give that a kick and then we'll
switch things up and switch on over to the

489
00:31:17,749 --> 00:31:18,749
next game.

490
00:31:18,749 --> 00:31:21,109
Chad: Come on, how hard can it be?

491
00:31:21,109 --> 00:31:22,440
It's only rocket science.

492
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:23,759
Matt: I know, right.

493
00:31:23,759 --> 00:31:28,380
And keep in mind, I had a hard time like getting
this one.

494
00:31:28,380 --> 00:31:31,639
I like having this one work and it's on the
training mode.

495
00:31:31,639 --> 00:31:36,100
So, they're even like have Gene Kerman is
guiding me through.

496
00:31:36,100 --> 00:31:41,019
Thomas: You spent a good amount of the morning
trying and you said the next one is going

497
00:31:41,019 --> 00:31:42,229
to be the good one.

498
00:31:42,229 --> 00:31:43,590
So, this is the next one, right?

499
00:31:43,590 --> 00:31:45,749
Matt: This is the one.

500
00:31:45,749 --> 00:31:50,150
Part of it is just not following directions
of what my friend Gene Kerman is going to

501
00:31:50,150 --> 00:31:51,150
show.

502
00:31:51,150 --> 00:31:54,679
We're going to flip on over, my throttle is
up.

503
00:31:54,679 --> 00:31:56,389
Thomas: The weather is looking good.

504
00:31:56,389 --> 00:31:57,830
Matt: We've got all the approved forms.

505
00:31:57,830 --> 00:32:00,059
Thomas: Are we good for science?

506
00:32:00,059 --> 00:32:01,169
Mary Beth: Go.

507
00:32:01,169 --> 00:32:03,460
Chad: Have you had your flight readiness review,
Matt?

508
00:32:03,460 --> 00:32:06,190
Matt: I was going to say, let's talk about
that.

509
00:32:06,190 --> 00:32:09,590
How realistic is this or what are they missing
in Kerbal?

510
00:32:09,590 --> 00:32:11,299
Thomas, you're familiar with Kerbal.

511
00:32:11,299 --> 00:32:16,200
What are the things that are not being simulated
in here like paperwork?

512
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:18,899
Thomas: Paperwork, filings and review.

513
00:32:18,899 --> 00:32:25,129
All those things, it's literally taking part
of the rocket, putting them together and then

514
00:32:25,129 --> 00:32:28,010
push the big red button.

515
00:32:28,010 --> 00:32:31,500
There is no big red button.

516
00:32:31,500 --> 00:32:34,099
You know, you don't look at the range, you
don't look at the weather, you don't look

517
00:32:34,099 --> 00:32:40,529
at really, all sorts of things that you're
supposed to look at and to make a rocket fly

518
00:32:40,529 --> 00:32:43,759
there is so much stuff behind it, to check
so many things.

519
00:32:43,759 --> 00:32:50,049
I think, Chad can talk about going through
all the FDR’s, stuff like that.

520
00:32:50,049 --> 00:32:55,210
Chad: There's quite the process, right, and
of course, at NASA there's even that much

521
00:32:55,210 --> 00:32:59,159
more process because typically we're dealing
with humans on board.

522
00:32:59,159 --> 00:33:03,759
So, there's a lot of reviews, let's make sure
all the engineering is done right, let's make

523
00:33:03,759 --> 00:33:07,850
sure everything was made correctly, have we
taken everything into account?

524
00:33:07,850 --> 00:33:08,850
It's a long process.

525
00:33:08,850 --> 00:33:13,620
And, of course, in Kerbal, we're seeing the
very end where the thing's on the pad, we've

526
00:33:13,620 --> 00:33:15,639
built it, press the button, let's go.

527
00:33:15,639 --> 00:33:17,019
So that's the fun part.

528
00:33:17,019 --> 00:33:22,619
Matt: Comparing what that little sub-orbital
hop was, got some cool science, brought it

529
00:33:22,619 --> 00:33:24,720
back, definitely useful.

530
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:26,479
What's the difference between this one?

531
00:33:26,479 --> 00:33:29,379
Different stages going on here for people
who have no clue what they're looking at.

532
00:33:29,379 --> 00:33:37,409
Thomas: On the side I believe is two solid
stage, it's a heavy kick, a lot of boost,

533
00:33:37,409 --> 00:33:41,820
not that efficient but the thing you want
to do when you launch a rocket, especially

534
00:33:41,820 --> 00:33:46,039
when you want to get orbital, the first thing
is get out of the atmosphere.

535
00:33:46,039 --> 00:33:50,970
Go out of the atmosphere and you have - you
try to turn because going to space straight

536
00:33:50,970 --> 00:33:59,529
up is "easy", it's getting to orbital speed,
that's the tough part there.

537
00:33:59,529 --> 00:34:05,860
Going up, you have all the part, the turn,
very complex to do as Matt is going to demonstrate.

538
00:34:05,860 --> 00:34:09,159
Matt: My friend Gene Kerman is going to walk
through this.

539
00:34:09,159 --> 00:34:12,950
I tried four times and I kept bailing every
single time.

540
00:34:12,950 --> 00:34:15,090
Chad: You were getting close.

541
00:34:15,090 --> 00:34:16,540
Matt: Let's give this a go.

542
00:34:16,540 --> 00:34:19,780
Let's get the throttle up.

543
00:34:19,780 --> 00:34:23,620
Matt: Let's try this out.

544
00:34:23,620 --> 00:34:27,600
Look at that.

545
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:31,150
Thomas: Let's do it.

546
00:34:31,150 --> 00:34:35,840
The big winglet in the back, I wouldn't put
that in something that goes that fast – might

547
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:37,730
have
some aerodynamic issues there.

548
00:34:37,730 --> 00:34:42,250
Matt: The thing that has been getting me is
the SAS not being turned on.

549
00:34:42,250 --> 00:34:43,610
Abby: What's that?

550
00:34:43,610 --> 00:34:45,640
Chad: Stability augmentation system.

551
00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:47,390
Matt: What exactly is that?

552
00:34:47,390 --> 00:34:48,920
Abby: Stops it shaking so much?

553
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:51,730
Chad: It makes it that much more stable, right?

554
00:34:51,730 --> 00:34:56,730
Matt: All I know is that as I've not had that
on I have not been very successful.

555
00:34:56,730 --> 00:35:01,660
Chad: You can see the end of the fin wiggling
back and forth a little bit and that's the

556
00:35:01,660 --> 00:35:07,460
stability augmentation system at work and
it's basically using a computer to sense what

557
00:35:07,460 --> 00:35:14,020
the thing, what the rocket is doing and augment
the control to help it be more stable than

558
00:35:14,020 --> 00:35:15,020
it otherwise would be.

559
00:35:15,020 --> 00:35:16,930
Abby: Did you say you can see that right now?

560
00:35:16,930 --> 00:35:18,970
Chad: You can see the fin wiggling a bit.

561
00:35:18,970 --> 00:35:20,690
Abby: This is that realistic?

562
00:35:20,690 --> 00:35:21,690
Wow.

563
00:35:21,690 --> 00:35:27,550
Thomas: In orbital rocket you don't use the
fin - Well, you can.

564
00:35:27,550 --> 00:35:33,000
On high-speed rocket you do use the fins to
change trajectories, more missile type of

565
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:34,000
things.

566
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:35,100
Chad: It's more a missile thing.

567
00:35:35,100 --> 00:35:38,720
Abby: I have a couple of more questions.

568
00:35:38,720 --> 00:35:42,940
Chad: Just imagine running this on the PDP1.

569
00:35:42,940 --> 00:35:45,560
Look how far we've come.

570
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:51,870
Abby: Back to our deep space topic, SG Stream
is asking do you think Star Trek space journeys

571
00:35:51,870 --> 00:35:54,400
will one day be possible?

572
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:57,630
That kind of deep space travel.

573
00:35:57,630 --> 00:36:01,330
Chad: I think we need the warp drive first.

574
00:36:01,330 --> 00:36:02,900
I think that's the hard part.

575
00:36:02,900 --> 00:36:08,810
Certainly, you know, humanity has the will,
we don't yet have the way.

576
00:36:08,810 --> 00:36:09,810
Abby: OK.

577
00:36:09,810 --> 00:36:10,810
Working on it?

578
00:36:10,810 --> 00:36:11,810
Chad: Yeah.

579
00:36:11,810 --> 00:36:12,810
Thomas: Working on it.

580
00:36:12,810 --> 00:36:16,650
Abby: I have a few questions on specific targets
and missions so you guys let us know if you

581
00:36:16,650 --> 00:36:19,210
can comment on that or if you just don't know.

582
00:36:19,210 --> 00:36:26,640
So, have there been any more planned missions
to Ceres, that's the asteroid?

583
00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:30,080
Chad: I don't think we have anything planned
right now.

584
00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:32,770
Mary Beth: I think right now they're planning
the plan.

585
00:36:32,770 --> 00:36:33,830
Chad: Planning the plan.

586
00:36:33,830 --> 00:36:39,600
Mary Beth: Every 10 years the planetary science
community comes together and discusses what

587
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:44,740
the top priorities are and determines where
they want to go next and Ceres is a really

588
00:36:44,740 --> 00:36:49,720
cool target right now because they found clays
which are indicative of water and they also

589
00:36:49,720 --> 00:36:51,130
found carbon.

590
00:36:51,130 --> 00:36:56,500
So, there's a lot of models for how this might
be happening but one of the models I heard

591
00:36:56,500 --> 00:37:01,330
about, which I think is pretty neat, is that
Ceres, the surface you're looking at, which

592
00:37:01,330 --> 00:37:07,950
is a large dwarf planet, is actually at the
bottom of an old ocean, which is wild.

593
00:37:07,950 --> 00:37:12,090
As a planetary scientist I'm really excited
about Ceres and learning more about it.

594
00:37:12,090 --> 00:37:17,270
I hope the community decides in a few years
that we should go back and explore more.

595
00:37:17,270 --> 00:37:18,980
Chad: So hopefully soon.

596
00:37:18,980 --> 00:37:20,060
Abby: Hopefully soon.

597
00:37:20,060 --> 00:37:27,210
Now what about the IMAGE satellite, what can
you tell us about IMAGE satellite and it being

598
00:37:27,210 --> 00:37:28,210
found again?

599
00:37:28,210 --> 00:37:30,720
Chad: I don't know anything about IMAGE.

600
00:37:30,720 --> 00:37:34,310
Abby: Can't speak to that one.

601
00:37:34,310 --> 00:37:39,320
This question, I wonder if this was inspired
by the goo.

602
00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:42,980
What role does a biochemist have in space,
such as Commander Peggy Whitson?

603
00:37:42,980 --> 00:37:46,330
Mary Beth: Biochemistry, that's what I do.

604
00:37:46,330 --> 00:37:49,290
Chad: What a great question.

605
00:37:49,290 --> 00:37:52,250
Abby: What role is there for you in space,
Mary Beth?

606
00:37:52,250 --> 00:37:56,910
Mary Beth: There's many parts of NASA where
biochemistry is important.

607
00:37:56,910 --> 00:38:04,950
The people who make sure the astronauts are
safe and how they adapt in the environment,

608
00:38:04,950 --> 00:38:09,410
biology and how that operates in space by
sending cultures or other living organisms

609
00:38:09,410 --> 00:38:15,290
up to the space station.

610
00:38:15,290 --> 00:38:20,090
Organic chemistry, so chemistry with carbon
molecules happens everywhere in our solar

611
00:38:20,090 --> 00:38:26,780
system, from dust to the surface of other
planetary bodies and actually, the molecules

612
00:38:26,780 --> 00:38:33,020
that we're made out of were deposited by comets
and other meteorites that rained down on Earth

613
00:38:33,020 --> 00:38:37,360
when it was still very young and so there's
a lot of interesting chemistry that goes on

614
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:41,700
here at Ames in the astrobiology chemistry
department where they try to demonstrate some

615
00:38:41,700 --> 00:38:46,661
of those reactions that occurred that led
to the beginnings of life.

616
00:38:46,661 --> 00:38:50,810
Abby: So cool, I love that stuff.

617
00:38:50,810 --> 00:38:56,560
It's space science because it's relevant to
everything we're studying out there but it's

618
00:38:56,560 --> 00:38:59,290
expected because it's biology and chemistry
and lab science.

619
00:38:59,290 --> 00:39:03,680
Matt: Where are we at now, Thomas and Chad?

620
00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:12,410
Thomas: 72 kilometers up your engine is off
and oh, OK.

621
00:39:12,410 --> 00:39:21,050
Matt: The blue arch is what my arc would be
but you see, my friend Gene Kerman has plotted

622
00:39:21,050 --> 00:39:22,810
for me the orange line.

623
00:39:22,810 --> 00:39:29,750
If I hit the gas at the right spot I'm going
up and going down and at a certain point you

624
00:39:29,750 --> 00:39:30,750
keep falling, I guess?

625
00:39:30,750 --> 00:39:33,910
Chad: You have to be pointed in the right
direction if you're going to fire up your

626
00:39:33,910 --> 00:39:34,910
engines, again.

627
00:39:34,910 --> 00:39:38,910
Matt: Unfortunately that's where the blue
thing is at the bottom.

628
00:39:38,910 --> 00:39:41,570
We might make this happen.

629
00:39:41,570 --> 00:39:44,330
Thomas: You still have some fuel so you might
actually do it.

630
00:39:44,330 --> 00:39:46,290
Abby: Matt, how reactive is it?

631
00:39:46,290 --> 00:39:49,620
If you move a little do you go winging off
in the wrong direction?

632
00:39:49,620 --> 00:39:53,710
Matt: Yeah, unfortunately, the SAS, the stability
mode helps a ton.

633
00:39:53,710 --> 00:39:55,820
I've tried doing it and accidentally turns
it off.

634
00:39:55,820 --> 00:40:01,330
9 times out of 10 if something goes wrong
it's because I turn off the stability system.

635
00:40:01,330 --> 00:40:05,850
Which makes me wonder why the stability system
is an option to have off.

636
00:40:05,850 --> 00:40:18,220
Thomas: I know here on Kerbal, sometimes if
you have ways to do more real gravity turn,

637
00:40:18,220 --> 00:40:23,160
you turn it off because otherwise the SAS
tries to fight your gravity transferring in

638
00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:24,160
the beginning.

639
00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:29,220
So, it's kind of fine tuning but, yeah, it's
what you wanted most of the time.

640
00:40:29,220 --> 00:40:32,670
You did a nice backflip earlier on the rocket.

641
00:40:32,670 --> 00:40:38,360
Matt: I half blame that on Thomas because
he's yelling "Do a barrel roll" and I was

642
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:42,070
like, I can do a roll, and that didn't work
out well.

643
00:40:42,070 --> 00:40:53,310
Chad: You have a stability augmentation system
on most high-speed aircraft as well and there's

644
00:40:53,310 --> 00:40:57,260
usually an off switch, right?

645
00:40:57,260 --> 00:40:58,930
Why on earth would you have an off switch?

646
00:40:58,930 --> 00:41:03,750
One of the main reasons is you can practice
flying without the stability augmentation

647
00:41:03,750 --> 00:41:07,920
system in case it ever stops working unexpectedly.

648
00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:11,460
You still want to be able to fly.

649
00:41:11,460 --> 00:41:13,470
Matt: I'm in orbit.

650
00:41:13,470 --> 00:41:15,470
Thomas: You're in orbit.

651
00:41:15,470 --> 00:41:16,470
Whoa.

652
00:41:16,470 --> 00:41:18,530
The pin worked.

653
00:41:18,530 --> 00:41:20,130
That's all you needed Matt.

654
00:41:20,130 --> 00:41:25,700
Matt: Can you guys see that on camera?

655
00:41:25,700 --> 00:41:28,480
So, look at that.

656
00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:30,870
Thomas: Good job.

657
00:41:30,870 --> 00:41:37,150
Matt: You have this peak thing up at the top
over here - wait, not there.

658
00:41:37,150 --> 00:41:40,070
What is the difference between these points
and why are they important?

659
00:41:40,070 --> 00:41:47,620
Thomas: So on your orbit you have the point
that's the closest to the body you are orbiting

660
00:41:47,620 --> 00:41:59,130
around, and the furthest one, and it's important
to know when to inject more thrust to do some

661
00:41:59,130 --> 00:42:05,970
orbit things like that, meaning you go at
high-speed, when you go at high-speed you

662
00:42:05,970 --> 00:42:10,280
do some cool, orbital stuff to save your fuel.

663
00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:15,280
Getting from one orbit to another is really
a whole game of how to properly manage your

664
00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:18,430
fuel because fuel is your life in space.

665
00:42:18,430 --> 00:42:24,650
So, a lot of smart people are needed to figure
out all the things behind this.

666
00:42:24,650 --> 00:42:25,890
It's a lot of work.

667
00:42:25,890 --> 00:42:30,660
Matt: We'll do another question and then we'll
get ready to pivot.

668
00:42:30,660 --> 00:42:32,770
Abby: How to choose, there are lots.

669
00:42:32,770 --> 00:42:36,140
I would like to get through some of these.

670
00:42:36,140 --> 00:42:43,020
When we go to Mars will we use centrifugal
or linear gravity?

671
00:42:43,020 --> 00:42:57,520
Chad: I 
never heard it used in those terms so I'm

672
00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:00,770
not exactly sure what they're asking.

673
00:43:00,770 --> 00:43:07,470
If you're trying to get to Mars, you know,
there's no such thing as a straight-line trajectory

674
00:43:07,470 --> 00:43:09,710
in curved space.

675
00:43:09,710 --> 00:43:16,120
So, gravity is effectively curving space time
so you're flying a big curve.

676
00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:22,250
I'm not sure if that's what they're getting
at or not.

677
00:43:22,250 --> 00:43:27,890
To get to Mars we're not using any gravity
assist maneuvers so we're not flying in close

678
00:43:27,890 --> 00:43:33,420
to the sun, like you saw in “Space War!”,
and using that to slingshot us around or anything.

679
00:43:33,420 --> 00:43:38,440
We're flying a more traditional trajectory
to get out there.

680
00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:39,710
Abby: OK, cool.

681
00:43:39,710 --> 00:43:41,870
Chad: So hopefully that answered their question.

682
00:43:41,870 --> 00:43:43,990
Abby: You can come back with clarification.

683
00:43:43,990 --> 00:43:51,210
Chad: If not they can submit us another question
and we'll try to figure it out.

684
00:43:51,210 --> 00:43:56,580
Matt: Let me go, just as a shout out to everybody,
if you're joining us you're watching NASA

685
00:43:56,580 --> 00:44:02,400
in Silicon Valley Live.

686
00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:05,390
This episode is “Let's Play Space Video
Games”.

687
00:44:05,390 --> 00:44:12,490
Let's have Mary Beth, our resident Mars expert,
she's going to come on up and replace Chad.

688
00:44:12,490 --> 00:44:17,860
I think we're due for the disclaimer as I
try to get things up and ready.

689
00:44:17,860 --> 00:44:25,030
Let's throw up our fun disclaimer which is:
As a U.S. government agency, NASA will not

690
00:44:25,030 --> 00:44:32,100
promote or endorse or appear to promote or
endorse a commercial product, service or activity.

691
00:44:32,100 --> 00:44:38,040
Playing these games is not an endorsement
by NASA or the U.S. Federal Government.

692
00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:40,790
No game developer or publisher requested,
nor did we or will we request to play any

693
00:44:40,790 --> 00:44:42,030
specific game.

694
00:44:42,030 --> 00:44:46,150
The games selected were purely to facilitate
a conversation on space exploration, science,

695
00:44:46,150 --> 00:44:47,960
technology, and engineering.

696
00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:53,830
With all of that out of the way, eyes up,
guardians, let's go visit Mars.

697
00:44:53,830 --> 00:44:57,490
Abby: Finally, because I have so many questions.

698
00:44:57,490 --> 00:45:04,780
Matt: Ready to go to Mars in the early 3200s
to play Destiny 1.

699
00:45:04,780 --> 00:45:09,210
I think we troubleshooted for a ridiculous
amount of time yesterday to try to get this

700
00:45:09,210 --> 00:45:10,460
up and running.

701
00:45:10,460 --> 00:45:13,060
Evidently my home console doesn't play very
well.

702
00:45:13,060 --> 00:45:17,830
Any non-NASA home console doesn't play well
with the NASA Internet connection, and you

703
00:45:17,830 --> 00:45:20,800
need an Internet connection to play Destiny.

704
00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:29,530
In full disclosure these are recordings I've
made.

705
00:45:29,530 --> 00:45:34,650
As I'm on Mars and playing it, all I could
think of was I need to talk to Mary Beth.

706
00:45:34,650 --> 00:45:36,170
Is this accurate?

707
00:45:36,170 --> 00:45:37,170
Is this real?

708
00:45:37,170 --> 00:45:41,880
Is this really what Mars looks like or could
even look like?

709
00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:44,270
So, as you see now, as we're making our approach.

710
00:45:44,270 --> 00:45:46,240
Mary Beth: Did we just go through a wormhole?

711
00:45:46,240 --> 00:45:49,490
Matt: Basically, that's what we do.

712
00:45:49,490 --> 00:45:56,630
Abby: Before we begin, people are asking for
a ballpark of when we will land humans on

713
00:45:56,630 --> 00:45:57,630
Mars?

714
00:45:57,630 --> 00:46:00,150
Mary Beth: That's a good question.

715
00:46:00,150 --> 00:46:05,450
I think the date keeps getting pushed back
because getting to Mars with humans is extremely

716
00:46:05,450 --> 00:46:10,300
expensive so I don't actually know what the
current estimate is off the top of my head

717
00:46:10,300 --> 00:46:17,430
but presumably, you know, if SLS starts to
show progress.

718
00:46:17,430 --> 00:46:18,430
Abby: The next big rocket.

719
00:46:18,430 --> 00:46:21,760
Mary Beth: Yeah, I think we'll get there hopefully
when I'm an old lady.

720
00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:27,410
Matt: Is tell us about it, Mary Beth, is this
what Mars looks like or could look like?

721
00:46:27,410 --> 00:46:30,630
We're seeing rocks, we're seeing dust and
even like trees?

722
00:46:30,630 --> 00:46:33,800
So, what would it take for trees, what do
you think?

723
00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:37,030
Mary Beth: So, Mars is extremely dry.

724
00:46:37,030 --> 00:46:40,460
It's so dry it's like hard to explain how
dry it is.

725
00:46:40,460 --> 00:46:47,010
For example, if you've heard of deserts in
the US like the Mojave, that's like maybe

726
00:46:47,010 --> 00:46:51,060
10 to 100,000 times wetter than the surface
of Mars today.

727
00:46:51,060 --> 00:46:57,650
So, this kind of vegetation level reminds
me of the Mojave Desert, or the Atacama Desert

728
00:46:57,650 --> 00:47:01,430
in Chile.

729
00:47:01,430 --> 00:47:10,080
So, unless we figure out a way to maybe grow
plants on the Martian surface, I think the

730
00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:14,040
one big hurdle to doing that would be the
irradiated environment.

731
00:47:14,040 --> 00:47:23,160
Mars doesn't have a protective layer like
Earth does and radiation is damaging to organic

732
00:47:23,160 --> 00:47:24,360
compounds.

733
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:29,730
I don't know if that would be too great for
life.

734
00:47:29,730 --> 00:47:34,940
Matt: Tell people a little bit - before we
jump into the questions, the first time I

735
00:47:34,940 --> 00:47:39,660
met Mary Beth was, you coauthored a paper
about liquid water on Mars.

736
00:47:39,660 --> 00:47:41,110
Do you want to talk a bit about that?

737
00:47:41,110 --> 00:47:47,220
Mary Beth: Sure, one of the big questions
that drives my research is did Mars ever host

738
00:47:47,220 --> 00:47:48,220
life?

739
00:47:48,220 --> 00:47:50,200
Did life ever begin on Mars?

740
00:47:50,200 --> 00:47:55,570
Sort of the first question you have to ask
in order to answer that question is was Mars

741
00:47:55,570 --> 00:47:58,420
a nice place to live for a microorganism?

742
00:47:58,420 --> 00:48:02,310
And the number one ingredient for life on
Earth is water.

743
00:48:02,310 --> 00:48:07,400
I worked on a team that was studying this
feature called recurring slope linear which

744
00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:09,100
is hotly debated.

745
00:48:09,100 --> 00:48:11,990
Matt: Like on these slopes over here?

746
00:48:11,990 --> 00:48:12,990
Mary Beth: Exactly.

747
00:48:12,990 --> 00:48:18,280
They are these weird features that show up
in the springtime and summertime and we identified

748
00:48:18,280 --> 00:48:26,530
hydration bands within a salt structure using
satellites and remote sensing data.

749
00:48:26,530 --> 00:48:28,320
That was a pretty exciting project to work
on.

750
00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:34,170
Matt: I was going to say, for people who are
watching I'm purposely avoiding the Fallen

751
00:48:34,170 --> 00:48:41,890
and Cabal and the Vex, they're alien species
that came to Mars.

752
00:48:41,890 --> 00:48:45,230
What is the research you're doing of possibility
of life on Mars?

753
00:48:45,230 --> 00:48:47,590
Mary Beth: We look for real aliens.

754
00:48:47,590 --> 00:48:51,780
So, one of the big questions that NASA is
trying to answer.

755
00:48:51,780 --> 00:48:55,120
Is there life anywhere else in the universe?

756
00:48:55,120 --> 00:49:02,950
So there's a group of people who do life detection
and we're looking for the signs - we're starting

757
00:49:02,950 --> 00:49:09,120
to design the instrumentation and starting
to come up with the concepts to guide our

758
00:49:09,120 --> 00:49:16,060
future missions to look for life on Mars or
in the plume of a moon or on the surface of

759
00:49:16,060 --> 00:49:17,230
Europa.

760
00:49:17,230 --> 00:49:25,150
Where we know liquid water currently exists
or once existed a long time ago.

761
00:49:25,150 --> 00:49:31,030
So, a few billion years ago, Mars had shallow
seas and a thick atmosphere and was a lot

762
00:49:31,030 --> 00:49:34,270
more Earth-like than the dry, dusty desert
we see today.

763
00:49:34,270 --> 00:49:37,300
Matt: Go ahead, Abby, let's get some chat.

764
00:49:37,300 --> 00:49:42,390
Abby: You mentioned the possibilities for
growing anything on Mars and so how long until

765
00:49:42,390 --> 00:49:46,250
we can terraform Mars like it used to be.

766
00:49:46,250 --> 00:49:50,090
That's transforming the environment so we
can grow things.

767
00:49:50,090 --> 00:49:54,730
Mary Beth: One guy I work with at Ames has
written some papers on that and it would take

768
00:49:54,730 --> 00:49:56,580
a long time.

769
00:49:56,580 --> 00:50:01,030
Even if you liberated all the water in the
poles, I don't know if it's like over the

770
00:50:01,030 --> 00:50:03,530
course of a lifetime of a human that that
would be possible.

771
00:50:03,530 --> 00:50:04,560
Abby: What's the idea?

772
00:50:04,560 --> 00:50:06,240
You get water out of the ice?

773
00:50:06,240 --> 00:50:07,630
Mary Beth: You get water out of the icecaps.

774
00:50:07,630 --> 00:50:09,470
Abby: And irrigate the ground.

775
00:50:09,470 --> 00:50:14,900
Mary Beth: Increase the pressure in the atmosphere.

776
00:50:14,900 --> 00:50:21,210
But I think kind of a more realistic picture
of colonization of Mars is underground or

777
00:50:21,210 --> 00:50:25,590
covered by dirt or having protective - I think
this notion of like astronaut just roaming

778
00:50:25,590 --> 00:50:30,780
around on the surface is, like for me, would
be a scary thing because of the radiation

779
00:50:30,780 --> 00:50:31,780
environment.

780
00:50:31,780 --> 00:50:37,070
So, I don't know, I think there's different
people that have different concepts of what

781
00:50:37,070 --> 00:50:41,190
Martian colonization would look like but I
don't know if it would be dudes driving around.

782
00:50:41,190 --> 00:50:43,180
Matt: On sparrows.

783
00:50:43,180 --> 00:50:45,170
Chad: Cave dwellers.

784
00:50:45,170 --> 00:50:49,150
Mary Beth: Cave dwellers, exactly, yeah.

785
00:50:49,150 --> 00:50:54,250
That's what in my mind, at least, that's how
I imagine it, but who knows?

786
00:50:54,250 --> 00:50:57,530
Matt: Let's do more chat.

787
00:50:57,530 --> 00:51:03,640
Abby: Was there enough standing water on Mars
for long enough for the biology of life to

788
00:51:03,640 --> 00:51:04,640
take hold?

789
00:51:04,640 --> 00:51:07,430
Mary Beth: We think so and maybe it wasn't
standing water.

790
00:51:07,430 --> 00:51:09,550
Like early Mars could have been cold and wet.

791
00:51:09,550 --> 00:51:14,580
So, it might have been more like Antarctica
than like the Amazon.

792
00:51:14,580 --> 00:51:19,900
Abby: ’Bacon 1989’ asks, “Didn't the
Curiosity rover come across running water

793
00:51:19,900 --> 00:51:22,360
but avoided it due to the possibility of contamination?”

794
00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:24,080
Mary Beth: I don't think so.

795
00:51:24,080 --> 00:51:30,260
There was a paper that determined that it
was possible to have liquid water at or near

796
00:51:30,260 --> 00:51:36,680
the surface but there's a group at NASA called
Pan-Planetary Protection that are careful

797
00:51:36,680 --> 00:51:42,760
about the places we explore so we don't contaminate
those places or they don't contaminate us.

798
00:51:42,760 --> 00:51:49,670
Curiosity was sterilized but not well enough
to explore those places.

799
00:51:49,670 --> 00:51:51,930
If that's true they would have avoided them
maybe.

800
00:51:51,930 --> 00:51:53,780
Abby: That does make sense.

801
00:51:53,780 --> 00:51:58,920
“ASDF512X” - Do microbes count as alien
life on planets?

802
00:51:58,920 --> 00:52:00,210
Mary Beth: Totally, yeah.

803
00:52:00,210 --> 00:52:01,210
We're looking for microbes.

804
00:52:01,210 --> 00:52:06,320
We're looking for microscopic organisms, cellular
life as we know it.

805
00:52:06,320 --> 00:52:10,120
We're not looking for little green men.

806
00:52:10,120 --> 00:52:16,380
And it makes sense, right, the ingredients
for life were ubiquitous in the early solar

807
00:52:16,380 --> 00:52:17,380
system.

808
00:52:17,380 --> 00:52:23,840
They rained down everywhere and so we're looking
for life that maybe resembles terrestrial

809
00:52:23,840 --> 00:52:26,910
life or life as we know it but maybe is a
little bit different.

810
00:52:26,910 --> 00:52:30,180
So that's how we're coming up with the framework
to search for life elsewhere.

811
00:52:30,180 --> 00:52:36,460
We're coming up with a reasonable set of molecules
to search for that are similar to what we

812
00:52:36,460 --> 00:52:37,480
have on Earth.

813
00:52:37,480 --> 00:52:39,250
Abby: Cool.

814
00:52:39,250 --> 00:52:41,650
Here is an unusual but interesting question.

815
00:52:41,650 --> 00:52:46,460
“Chris 84567” asks, “To terraform Mars,
why don't we fly a rocket with whole lot of

816
00:52:46,460 --> 00:52:48,630
poop on it for a basis for life to start.

817
00:52:48,630 --> 00:52:50,490
I'm serious, like fertilizer?”

818
00:52:50,490 --> 00:52:54,140
Mary Beth: It's too dry.

819
00:52:54,140 --> 00:52:59,190
Abby: Does the lack of magnetic field on Mars
add great difficulty to the difficult task

820
00:52:59,190 --> 00:53:00,190
of terraforming?

821
00:53:00,190 --> 00:53:05,140
Mary Beth: Absolutely, radiation is a problem.

822
00:53:05,140 --> 00:53:13,260
Some of the oldest rocks on Mars are magnetized.

823
00:53:13,260 --> 00:53:18,120
Because Mars is so small it doesn't have the
same internal structure that Earth does so

824
00:53:18,120 --> 00:53:22,280
it lost its magnetic field and then got
bombarded with radiation.

825
00:53:22,280 --> 00:53:27,740
Matt: We're going to switch over to more game
play, introducing everybody to Phobos and

826
00:53:27,740 --> 00:53:30,360
Deimos, but we can keep taking some of the
chat.

827
00:53:30,360 --> 00:53:32,930
I did want to show off, but what is Phobos?

828
00:53:32,930 --> 00:53:39,320
Mary Beth: Phobos is a moon of Mars, there’s
two moons that orbit Mars, Phobos and Deimos,

829
00:53:39,320 --> 00:53:45,580
and they're different than our moon because
our moon is actually was created by a big

830
00:53:45,580 --> 00:53:47,290
impact that happened on Earth.

831
00:53:47,290 --> 00:53:51,410
So, something very large smashed into Earth
and then formed our moon.

832
00:53:51,410 --> 00:53:56,360
But people believe that - scientists believe
Phobos and Deimos are actually captured objects.

833
00:53:56,360 --> 00:54:03,330
Phobos in particular is a rubble pile that
has a thin crust on top of it.

834
00:54:03,330 --> 00:54:05,540
Definitely wouldn't be walking around with
like gravity.

835
00:54:05,540 --> 00:54:10,130
Matt: That is one of the first reactions because
we were hopping around on Mars, jumping and

836
00:54:10,130 --> 00:54:15,160
flying into the air, considering that gravity
base that we've established on Mars.

837
00:54:15,160 --> 00:54:18,050
What would happen if we jumped like that for
real on Phobos?

838
00:54:18,050 --> 00:54:19,990
Mary Beth: I think you'd go flying.

839
00:54:19,990 --> 00:54:26,370
Thomas: The smoke in the back there, probably
not smoke rising like that, no gravity, no

840
00:54:26,370 --> 00:54:27,370
convection.

841
00:54:27,370 --> 00:54:28,370
Mary Beth: No atmosphere.

842
00:54:28,370 --> 00:54:33,910
Matt: So when we hop on our little bike and
had the end trail things, it probably wouldn't

843
00:54:33,910 --> 00:54:34,910
exist on Phobos?

844
00:54:34,910 --> 00:54:35,910
Thomas: Need an atmosphere for that.

845
00:54:35,910 --> 00:54:40,460
Matt: No, not much of an atmosphere.

846
00:54:40,460 --> 00:54:41,900
Mary Beth: It's also the right color.

847
00:54:41,900 --> 00:54:48,160
So Phobos is one of the least reflective objects
in the solar system and its dark color comes

848
00:54:48,160 --> 00:54:50,310
from the minerals that it's made out of.

849
00:54:50,310 --> 00:54:56,710
Matt: And as it flipped over we saw Mars,
is that about how close it is?

850
00:54:56,710 --> 00:55:03,030
Seeing those pictures of Earth from the moon,
I'm guessing if you're on Phobos, Mars would

851
00:55:03,030 --> 00:55:06,560
be huge or are you further away?

852
00:55:06,560 --> 00:55:12,630
Mary Beth: You'd have to go and see how far
away it is from the Martian surface.

853
00:55:12,630 --> 00:55:20,080
There's a cool picture I wanted to mention
that just came out, I think it made the news

854
00:55:20,080 --> 00:55:24,510
a couple of weeks ago or maybe a few months
ago, from the OSIRIS-Rex mission, where they

855
00:55:24,510 --> 00:55:29,000
actually took a picture of Earth and the moon
in the same frame and it's so cool, you can

856
00:55:29,000 --> 00:55:30,650
actually see the distance between them.

857
00:55:30,650 --> 00:55:32,770
So, I encourage folks to go out and search
for that.

858
00:55:32,770 --> 00:55:40,740
Matt: Let's hit up as much in the chat because
we're going to have to wrap up in 3 minutes.

859
00:55:40,740 --> 00:55:41,830
We're going to have to wrap up.

860
00:55:41,830 --> 00:55:45,430
Let's get as many on the chat as we can before
we get counted out.

861
00:55:45,430 --> 00:55:48,960
Abby: Is the icecap on the pole of Mars methane
or would that be some

862
00:55:48,960 --> 00:55:49,960
sort of water?

863
00:55:49,960 --> 00:55:54,080
Mary Beth: It's mostly carbon dioxide ice
because the pressure is so low so carbon dioxide

864
00:55:54,080 --> 00:55:55,630
can act as ice.

865
00:55:55,630 --> 00:55:59,780
But there is a small percentage of it that
is water and some new work that's been coming

866
00:55:59,780 --> 00:56:04,540
out shows that there is some other ice deposits
in the northern regions on Mars.

867
00:56:04,540 --> 00:56:06,620
Sorry, water ice.

868
00:56:06,620 --> 00:56:10,340
Abby: ’Frosty’ asks, “When was the moon
created?”

869
00:56:10,340 --> 00:56:15,030
Mary Beth: Early on in the solar system, so
I think it happened, you know, within the

870
00:56:15,030 --> 00:56:18,130
first few hundred million years of the formation
of Earth.

871
00:56:18,130 --> 00:56:20,690
So, the early solar system was a really violent
place.

872
00:56:20,690 --> 00:56:25,090
There were lots of things hitting each other
and then it sort of calmed down over time.

873
00:56:25,090 --> 00:56:28,980
So that's when the moon was formed out of
the Earth's material.

874
00:56:28,980 --> 00:56:35,380
Matt: Looks like we are getting the “wrap
it up” sign.

875
00:56:35,380 --> 00:56:36,480
This has been amazing.

876
00:56:36,480 --> 00:56:42,860
So, for folks who have been watching, this
has been NASA in Silicon Valley Live.

877
00:56:42,860 --> 00:56:48,250
Huge thanks to our guests, we have over on
the SkyCam we have Chad Frost, sitting over

878
00:56:48,250 --> 00:56:49,250
there.

879
00:56:49,250 --> 00:56:51,470
We're going to switch to the SkyCam, there
we go.

880
00:56:51,470 --> 00:56:53,860
Of course, with Dave and Bill sitting over
there.

881
00:56:53,860 --> 00:56:55,150
Huge thanks to Chad.

882
00:56:55,150 --> 00:56:58,680
Up top over here we have Thomas Lambot and
Mary Beth Wilhelm.

883
00:56:58,680 --> 00:57:02,230
A huge thanks to everybody who watched and
asked questions.

884
00:57:02,230 --> 00:57:06,740
A few guests are going to hang out in the
chat and keep answering those questions.

885
00:57:06,740 --> 00:57:09,750
We are all on major social media platforms under "NASA Ames."

886
00:57:09,750 --> 00:57:13,340
If you enjoyed the stream please comment and
let us know.

887
00:57:13,340 --> 00:57:15,010
We're testing this out.

888
00:57:15,010 --> 00:57:16,770
This is new territory for us.

889
00:57:16,770 --> 00:57:21,620
If you haven't already, go ahead and click
like, share, subscribe, whatever button you

890
00:57:21,620 --> 00:57:24,550
see on the screen or podcast app.

891
00:57:24,550 --> 00:57:27,910
Having that stuff really helps other people
find the content.

892
00:57:27,910 --> 00:57:30,360
We will be back for one more Twitch episode.

893
00:57:30,360 --> 00:57:35,180
We're aiming for Monday, February 12th, but
keep an eye out on social media and we'll

894
00:57:35,180 --> 00:57:39,880
send out more information as that date gets
closer.